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The interview

Nordio: 'Separation rebalances the relationship between politics and justice'

The Minister of Justice: 'No desire for revenge or vengeance. The judiciary has never attacked politics, it was politics that in a cowardly manner took steps backwards'

by Giovanni Negri

Il ministro della Giustizia, Carlo Nordio, durante il voto finale in Senato sul ddl sulla separazione delle carriere dei magistrati, Roma, 30 ottobre 2025. ANSA/RICCARDO ANTIMIANI

3' min read

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Versione italiana

3' min read

Translated by AI

For feedback, please contact
english@ilsole24ore.com

Versione italiana

From theseparation of careers to disciplinary reform, from civil justice to the professional order, Justice Minister Carlo Nordio answers questions from the Sole 24 Ore at the XXVIII Congress of Young Lawyers that opened yesterday in Bergamo.

Question: Mr. Minister, do you recognise yourself in a revanchist reading of the constitutional reform on the part of politics vis-à-vis the judiciary?

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Answer: It is not a desire for revenge on the part of politics that inspires the reform. There is rather the need for a balance between powers, between the judiciary and the legislature. The judiciary has never attacked politics and has never tried to replace it; if anything, it was politics that in a cowardly manner took steps backwards, leaving spaces that the judiciary then occupied.

D: So the reform has a more political than technical objective?

A: I cannot repeat often enough that central to the constitutional amendment law is not so much to oppose the possibility for a judge to become a public prosecutor and vice versa, which is already limited today, but to avoid is that for the same SCC there are cross-claims for votes between judges and public prosecutors, that there is an overly compliant domestic justice, clearing house, and in any case conditioned by the currents. Harsh words, but it is the discovery of hot water, coming from someone who has been a magistrate for years. These are all measures that we believe will strengthen, not weaken, the autonomy and independence of the judiciary.

D: Is there a real danger for the judiciary in politically overloading the referendum appointment?

A: I think so, especially because we think we are going to win the ferendum and dealing with a judiciary humiliated by a political defeat is certainly not the goal of either myself or the government.

D: Even if we want to consider credible the guarantees, including personal ones, that you have given and give on the impossibility of subjection of the public prosecutor to the executive, do you not however consider the accentuation of the investigative profile of the public prosecution service, with its own, entirely self-referential SCCM, to be dangerous for citizens?

A: Already now the public prosecutor is a sort of supercop, especially after the reform of the Code of Criminal Procedure made him not only the monopolist of criminal prosecution but also the head of the judicial police. The danger today seems to me to be different and that is that the uniqueness of the SCC and the admixture between the figure of the judge and that of the public prosecutor, makes the judge lose that tertiality that absolutely must characterise him.

D: The reform law places in the hands of the government not only the establishment of the High Disciplinary Court but also a redefinition of the entire typology of disciplinary offences. Is a further tightening looming?

A: The priority is to avoid the current situation where potential judges elect their judge, with the latter perhaps having phoned the former years earlier to ask for their vote, a totally irrational short-circuit, which I am still waiting for to be explained. For the rest, I believe that the current law on the determination of offences is adequate, that is not where the problem lies, so much as in the independence of the judge; after all, it is enough to see the small number of disciplinary sentences pronounced against the many anomalies recorded. The Palamara scandal itself ended in nothing, throwing the dust under the carpet, with only a few councillors resigning.

D: On civil justice, do you think it is necessary to amend the Cartabia reform?

A: Absolutely, with the highest esteem for the colleague who preceded me and who acted at a very particular and emergency juncture, however, once the emergency is over, orality must be recovered in thecivil trial, subject to an agreement between the parties to enhance the written treatment.

D: How concerned are you about the non-achievement of the NRP targets to reduce the duration of civil trials?

A: We will see, but I would say that the progress made is very significant. The backlog has largely been disposed of and the duration has also been reduced. Of course the targets are very ambitious and perhaps, when they were set, not very respectful in the necessary relationship between available budget and target.

D: Finally, do you consider the goal of a new legal system by the end of the parliamentary term to be realistic?

A: Yes, I believe it can be achieved. The enabling act is already being examined in parliament and I think we can also reach the goal with the enabling decrees before the end of the parliamentary term.

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